tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7696446405100112491.post6759691877310952418..comments2023-10-31T06:45:58.112-08:00Comments on The Least of All Evils: Start With the Primaries?Dale Sheldon-Hesshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07974707193305445403noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7696446405100112491.post-32555844713734161082010-07-01T14:35:54.803-08:002010-07-01T14:35:54.803-08:00DSH: The main reason I have is the Bayesian regret...DSH: The main reason I have is the Bayesian regret simulations of Dr. Warren Smith, which attempt to account for ALL criterion, AS WELL AS your concerns about differing values and about low-information voters.<br /><br />dlw: One can attempt to deal with low-info voters in those settings, but when you compound that with the inherent fuzziness of political options (too many issues plus problems of character) then the solutions proferred don't necessarily cut the gordian knot. I'm well aware I'm not arguing anything that hasn't been argued before. I'm simply trying to explain why the bayesian regret simulations do not settle the matter for me. <br /><br />There is no meta-criteria for evaluating elections. The different criterion remain in tension with each other and we can and must experiment and learn by doing. <br /><br />I offer an alternative other than what was tested. I also point to how what really matters is that we use a better mix of winner-take-all and winner-doesn't-take-all elections, with the latter being a system that your uber-criterion can't handle. <br /><br />And so my point is that you just gotta face the music that we're still groping in the dark with how best we might go about fixing the US's democracy. My intuition is that we waste too much time/energy on trying to figure out and argue about the "best" voting rule. We also need most to use both winner-take-all and winner-doesn't-take-all elections and then we can experiment with ways to give voters more options in more local elections.... (the more local, the more options, imo.)<br /><br />dlwDLWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709279441985086959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7696446405100112491.post-38788726312046520742010-07-01T14:13:25.580-08:002010-07-01T14:13:25.580-08:00"Criterion" is a loaded word.
When you ..."Criterion" is a loaded word.<br /><br />When you say "criterion" I think "immunity to irrelevant alternatives" or "later no harm"; the whole menagerie that came out as an attempt to argue our way through Arrow's theorem.<br /><br />The reason I support approval and score have nothing to do with criterion.<br /><br />The main reason I have is the Bayesian regret simulations of Dr. Warren Smith, which attempt to account for ALL criterion, AS WELL AS your concerns about differing values and about low-information voters.<br /><br />In other words, your concerns are not new; your concerns have been examined, and incorporated, to the best of our ability, into the simulation; and after accounting for them, your concerns have had NO APPRECIABLE EFFECT on the outcome: approval and score are still the best.<br /><br />The only thing not considered is multi-winner systems; I agree, they sound great, but I don't have numbers, and so I make no claims. But I believe that, if I can convince you that approval and score really are the best answers, that you will also come to believe the PR systems based on approval and score are likely to be the best answers.Dale Sheldon-Hesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07974707193305445403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7696446405100112491.post-34934955865263843632010-07-01T13:02:34.695-08:002010-07-01T13:02:34.695-08:00DSH: You see and that's the problem when you l...DSH: You see and that's the problem when you look to a particular criterion.<br /><br />Habits trump rules, anyways, and so it's best to hold all purportedly objective approaches to election rule evaluation with a grain of salt.<br /><br />My thoughts:<br />1. One election rule doesn't fit all elections. Or all election rules embody values and no specific election rule can get all of the values "right"... and once again it's voter habits that matter most, not the election rule.<br /><br />2. The winner-take-all and winner-doesn't-take-all election rule distinction is <i>the</i> most important distinction.<br /><br />3. Keep all election rules simple for voters and bear in mind that most voters are both low-info and that political choices are inherently fuzzy and therefore not rankable objectively.<br /><br />peace,<br /><br />dlwDLWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709279441985086959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7696446405100112491.post-60125251411056119402010-07-01T09:37:11.029-08:002010-07-01T09:37:11.029-08:00I'm kinda bad at this whole "blogosphere&...I'm kinda bad at this whole "blogosphere" thing and the whole tit-for-tat linking fest.<br /><br />That said, a lot of your effort seems to go into PR; which, I agree, is a great way to go, but I generally argue from a very empirical angle, and while with single-winner methods I can fall back on Bayesian regret and Smith's simulations, similar work just doesn't exist for PR systems.<br /><br />My intuition is that RRV (re-weighted range voting) would be a very effective system, even with just a two-level approval-type ballot, but I don't have numbers to back that up; so I don't say anything.<br /><br />Perhaps I should write a bit about RRV, and then perhaps I will find it useful to link to some of your work.<br /><br />Honestly, the first I'd heard of your blog was when I commented yesterday, and I only found it because I have a Google Alert on phrases like "instant runoff voting", "approval voting" etc.; so I'm not even that well-acquainted with your work.<br /><br />Nice to meet you!Dale Sheldon-Hesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07974707193305445403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7696446405100112491.post-21145036172766742952010-07-01T08:47:19.504-08:002010-07-01T08:47:19.504-08:00Chew on these rules.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpoints...Chew on these rules.<br /><br />http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/a/n/ankotp/2010/06/three-rules-for-election-rules.php<br /><br />dlwDLWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709279441985086959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7696446405100112491.post-2332701696551721332010-07-01T08:43:04.864-08:002010-07-01T08:43:04.864-08:00Are you going to link to any of my posts?
I mean ...Are you going to link to any of my posts?<br /><br />I mean I did post on this topic recently...<br /><br />dlwDLWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17709279441985086959noreply@blogger.com